Tim Betz
It has been a long time since Dungeons and Dragons was first published. While Roleplaying games have developed and grown from there, placing a much greater emphasis on character development and interactions, the trend in modern Roleplaying systems seems to be the move towards a reduction in the amount of rules and dice rolling, and a much bigger emphasis on allowing the story to flow the way that the participants would like.
Some people however, see this trend as going to far, almost to the point of disposing with rules altogether, and feel that this takes away something that, to them, is an integral part of the roleplaying experience.
In a recent on-line discussion Tim Betz and Cameron Blackwood got together with Liam Routt to examine what effects these changes might have on various styles of play.
We join the discussion, already in progress...
Cam B.:
I think the damages are more constant and stuff (less rolling)
Tim B.:
That's all WW needs...
less realistic combat...
Cam B.:
I think it may make it more realistic. I think its liek a shotgun
does '6' regardless (which is more realistic than the 15-0 levels
currently
Liam:
Freeforms that I have played have been less satisfying than match the object and the place
computer rpgs in terms of any sort of roleplaying...
sort of
match the thing you want and the thing they have and trade for
something they want...
Unfair to generalize the whole thing from thsoe expereices...
Tim B.:
I have the following problem with diceless combat.
If I can only die because the GM says so
then I can only die when I've been really stupid and deserve it
('cause the GM will be fair) or if my death is angstful and storyline driven.
It takes something away from the challenge and lessens my
characters motivations...
Liam:
Tim said:
If you want to play a game where there is a story but more of a puzzle solving
challenge
you need skills that can fail, and ergo you need the dice.
And I don't know about that... I do think the dice need to be there some
times to give uncertainty, but I'm not sure puzzle solving defines the
time for me...
I tend to feel that I set puzzles that are almost always
outside the system ....
Mechanics and dice add an aspect of threat and adventure... perhaps...
Cam B.:
combat damage. If you believe the traveller dudes then it shouldn't do
that much damage (given that wonderful post about us/mexican border guards
and levels of killing) (something like 290 shots fired and 2 deaths).
freeforms are more 'character interaction' centered in my view.
I get the feeling we all want something inbetween pure interaction and pure
boardgaming :)
I think you can reduce dice... say a combat round becomes roll 1d10 and
the GM makes up the result from that. Thats random and able to be modified
for environ. :)
mechanics and dice add both predictablity and unpredictability
Liam:
Ahh, but what if you can die when *you* or the GM feel it is appropriate,
and you accept that you might not live through the story? Does that help?
I mean, then you have the chance to make your own death happen and make it
work for you. If it fits.
I dunno
Tim B.:
Yes, but the nature of roleplaying is that the PCs have more than one
way of solving the puzzles and problems they encounter. They are free to
try and tackle them from any angle they can come up with. This means
that the PCs might try and do something based on their characters abilities.
If neither the GM nor the PC are particularly knowledgeable about chemistry say, how does the
result of a PCs attempt at using chemistry in a given situation get resolved?
Liam:
I just question whether the interaction in freeforms has
much to do with "characters" It seems distant to me, a lot of the time.
The Glorantha freeform I played was a massive exception, though, but I have
heard it was dull dull if you had a small-time characxter...
Liam:
Vag: I see the dilema, but not the problem, really. I mean, if none of us know,
then the GM can make physics (or chemistry) up and no one should be offended.
If someone does know, then they chime in with knowledge. Then again things
never work smoothly... And the problem would most likely need to be tackled
by the *writer* for most puzzles of the sort we seem to be talking about
which means the story probaly makes some assumtions, which the "real facts"
may not support... ugly. But then, we are talking about the system supporting
the writer, and I think that's a whole other kettle of fish...
Tim B.:
I have willingly sent characters to heroic "I am going to die" moments
before. I like the sense of, I dunno, noble sacrifice that comes with knowing your death has
achieved something. And if I have to fight thru and roll well to be able to take the bad guys with me, this sense of achievement is heightened.
Sure, I can say "I'd like my character to die heroicaly here, wading thru the evil army to grapple the enemy commander off the cliff" but it feels empty
to me if I can just do it. It makes a fine story, I wont deny that...
Cam B.:
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
-- John Kenneth Galbraith
*wave* im off :)
Tim B.:
see you...
Liam:
hmmm. I see what you are saying. Its and empty gesture if you have to make
it.
Bye
Cammy! :
Tim B.:
It's not so much that as the feeling of "standing against all odds"
and "heroicaly achieving something difficult and dying in the attempt"
just dissapear if there is no "all odds" or "difficulty" because I can
simply say "I would like to do this" and the GM has the choice of saying
"You succeed" or "even though you are a main character, and in this style of play it is important your death be meaningful etc etc, you fail and are cut down like a dog where you stand..."
Liam:
: oh, that's pretty much what I meant, oddly enough. If the game relies
upon you to say you are makin this gesture, the gesture becomes empty on
one level, and self-serving posing on another level. I can see the need
for a wall to push against, for the strength of your arm to be in any
way measured, or important...
I do wish it was not the case. And perhaps, in a different sort of game,
it might not be so important. One where people started with radically
different goals as participants. But that sounds quite different from what
we are going when we commonly gather to roleplay... hmmmm.
I really gotta motor, though. Love to talk more later. You have my number,
so to speak... :)
Tim B.:
I see where I misunderstood what you said...
Oh well, have fun, it has been most stimulating (and the rest of you can stop snickering)...